1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,680 This program is about unsolved mysteries. 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,280 Whenever possible, the actual family members and police 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,280 officials have participated in recreating the events. 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,720 What you are about to see is not a news broadcast. 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:18,280 Tonight, a special edition of Unsolved Mysteries. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,520 In the summer of 1991, 31-year-old Jeffrey Dahmer 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,360 confessed to the unprovoked murders of 17 young men, 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,360 neighbors and courtesans, and the police. 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,080 Neighbors and co-workers who described Dahmer as a quiet 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,280 loner were shocked by the revelations. 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,360 In the 1980s, banking executives siphoned billions 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,360 from the nation's SNLs. 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,080 Savings were devoted to fraudulent land schemes, luxury cars 14 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,680 and yachts, prostitutes, and political slush funds. 15 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,680 The rest of us will be repaying the debt 16 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,040 well into the next century. 17 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,760 Iraqi President Saddam Hussein murdered thousands of rivals 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,480 in his rise to power. 19 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,320 Though sadly defeated by Operation Desert Storm, 20 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:06,320 he has reemerged to threaten world stability. 21 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:09,160 The central characters in these seemingly unrelated events 22 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,240 share one disturbing trait, a cunning mind unrestrained 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,120 by conscience. 24 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:16,840 Some call them psychopaths. 25 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,960 Others call them sociopaths. 26 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:23,080 We call them diabolical minds. 27 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,000 Motherhood is above suspicion, unquestioned, 28 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,160 and sacred. 29 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,040 So no one was surprised when Marie 30 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,080 Helle resolutely nursed her family 31 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,160 through a series of debilitating illnesses. 32 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,560 Nobody had any idea that Marie Helle 33 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,400 was poisoning her own family. 34 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,720 From his prison cell, convicted murderer G. Daniel Walker 35 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,960 terrorized a deputy district attorney who prosecuted him. 36 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,720 Our exclusive interview with Walker 37 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,080 paints a chilling portrait of the diabolical mind. 38 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,920 In June 1989, a mother and her two daughters 39 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,840 were sexually assaulted, then dumped, still alive, 40 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,400 into Tampa Bay. 41 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,000 Perhaps you can help identify the killer 42 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:09,080 who authorities believe that continued rape and murder. 43 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:10,960 Tonight in this special presentation, 44 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,920 we will explore the mysteries of a frightening phenomenon, 45 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:17,000 the mysteries of the diabolical mind. 46 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:17,880 Join me. 47 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,520 The words diabolical and psychopath 48 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,360 bring to mind the lurid villains from horror movies, 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,680 out of control, glassy-eyed, unkempt maniacs. 50 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,000 Real-life psychopaths bear little resemblance 51 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,840 to these movie madmen. 52 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,200 They hold jobs, shop for groceries, 53 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:10,280 and appear no different than the rest of us, most of the time. 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,480 Only the minority of psychopaths are actually violent. 55 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,200 There are people who are vice presidents of corporations, 56 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,120 who step over the competition, whose backstabbing 57 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,680 is only figurative. 58 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,000 One of the social dangers that psychopathic individuals 59 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,440 perpetuate is that oftentimes, especially 60 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,080 if they're brighter than average or perhaps very intelligent, 61 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,440 that they can fool individuals into believing 62 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,440 that they are quite sincere and are being quite honest. 63 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,040 Even psychopaths who murder such a serial killer, John Wayne 64 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,240 Gacy, might stand next to you in line at the post office 65 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,760 without drawing your attention. 66 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,880 John Wayne Gacy is an interesting case in Chicago. 67 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,840 A respectable, responsible figure 68 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,920 was a clown at children's parties, 69 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,080 active in the political party of his time, 70 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,320 photographed with the president and the president's wife. 71 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:09,800 But all the while this was going on, 72 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,640 he was systematically luring into his house 73 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,120 and then hideously torturing and killing young men 74 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:21,520 and then burying them under his home. 75 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,280 Ted Bundy also appeared to be a pillar of society. 76 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,080 At various times before his arrest and execution, 77 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,760 he was a counselor on a rape crisis hotline, 78 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,840 a campaign aide to Washington Governor Dan Evans. 79 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:37,840 And in 1972, Ted Bundy was named Mr. Up and Coming 80 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:40,320 Republican. 81 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,040 Two very well-known journalists describe Ted Bundy, 82 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,800 for example, as a kind of alien life form, 83 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,880 mimicking the behavior of real human beings. 84 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,920 A lot of psychopaths don't just kill individuals. 85 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:53,920 They're not content with that. 86 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,600 A lot of psychopaths run countries. 87 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,120 I see no fundamental difference between someone 88 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,080 like Ted Bundy and someone like Adolf Hitler, who simply 89 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,680 use very different techniques for very similar ends. 90 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,960 That all that mattered to them was control and domination 91 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,360 in one case of a single isolated individual 92 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,160 in another of an entire nation. 93 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,960 And the ruthless annihilation of millions meant nothing. 94 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,280 The most destructive psychopaths, 95 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:24,000 those very few who achieve and hold 96 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,760 on to absolute political power, the force of authority 97 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,920 combined with a diabolical mind almost inevitably 98 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,480 leads to an epic and horrifying rampage. 99 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,560 In these rare home movies, Adolf Hitler 100 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,360 appears no more threatening than a prosperous Bavarian 101 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,880 country gentleman, a friend of dogs and small children. 102 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,040 And yet, Hitler was certainly the most heinous psychopath 103 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,640 of all time. 104 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,120 What drove Hitler to systematically murder 105 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,120 6 million Jews and decimate most of Europe? 106 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,600 One of the more common prevalent theories today 107 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,960 is that there's a lack of bonding between the parent 108 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,520 and the child in the very early years. 109 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:09,240 The sociopath grows up feeling unlove, out of control. 110 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,640 And when he grows up, he has intense need for control 111 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,120 over other people. 112 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,920 Hitler's father was 52 years old when Hitler was born. 113 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,520 Many believe his physical and emotional abuse 114 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,400 virtually destroyed his son's self-esteem. 115 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,520 As an adult, Adolf Hitler felt compelled to subject 116 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,040 millions to avenge his own deep feelings of inferiority. 117 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,360 Psychopaths kill because that is the ultimate act 118 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,240 of humiliation and dominance that shows their total power 119 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,280 and control over another human being. 120 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:47,200 It's the ultimate achievement of their psychopathic dreams. 121 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:53,360 And we will win again in our sign! 122 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,480 Amidst the wreckage and misery that he unleashed on 123 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,920 Europe, Hitler displayed the psychopath's most chilling 124 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,760 trait, a total absence of empathy for his victims. 125 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,040 For the psychopath, the world is a smorgasbord from which 126 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,760 he can select whatever food he wants to eat. 127 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,840 There's no reciprocity. 128 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,640 There's no empathy for who he victimizes. 129 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,000 It is something that he intentionally does, 130 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,800 and it's choices that he makes day in and day out 131 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,760 as to who he will manipulate. 132 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,320 More recently, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein 133 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,080 ordered the invasion of Kuwait, the latest episode 134 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:32,440 in a political career marked by bloodletting and treachery. 135 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,080 Saddam has an extremely dangerous personality, 136 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,560 but he is not crazy in the sense of being 137 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,000 commitable to a mental institution. 138 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,000 This is the kind of person, in a court of law, 139 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,480 who is not a criminal, but a criminal. 140 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,240 Saddam Hussein was a man who was trying to find a person 141 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,840 in a court of law who would not be considered not guilty 142 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,920 by reason of insanity, but the recommendation 143 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:02,200 of the examining psychiatrist would undoubtedly 144 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:03,600 be to throw away the key. 145 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,120 Saddam Hussein grew up in an impoverished almost 146 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,920 medieval village that lacked electricity and running water. 147 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,360 He was frequently beaten by his stepfather, 148 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,080 stealing chickens and sheep. 149 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,720 Like Hitler, Hussein exploited a turbulent political climate 150 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:29,640 to legitimize his personal need to dominate and control others. 151 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,160 Along the way, what he learned and what was reinforced 152 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:39,080 regularly was that violence is the key to power. 153 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,200 During the 1960s and 70s, Hussein methodically eliminated 154 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,040 political rivals, torturing and murdering thousands. 155 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,080 By July of 1979, Hussein inspired so much fear 156 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,680 that he was able to gain the presidency simply by asking for it. 157 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,360 Within days, Hussein summoned his leading supporters 158 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,480 to a meeting where he charged a number of potential rivals 159 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,160 with treason. 160 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,000 This crude video footage was smuggled out of Iraq 161 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,360 and shows several of the accused being led from the meeting. 162 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,120 After the meeting, Hussein forced 163 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,440 those not identified as conspirators 164 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,880 to execute their former colleagues. 165 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,080 A striking example of the dangers of criticizing Saddam 166 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,240 occurred in 1982. 167 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,000 The war with Iran that Saddam had initiated 168 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,960 was going very badly. 169 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,640 And Saddam decided they had to stop it. 170 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:45,240 But by now Khomeini was obsessed with Saddam 171 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,000 and said there would be no peace until Saddam was deposed 172 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,360 or stepped down. 173 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,560 Saddam called a cabinet meeting, asked his cabinet, 174 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:55,760 what shall we do? 175 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,800 Khomeini insists I step down. 176 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,640 To a man, of course, the cabinet said, 177 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:00,400 you must stay on. 178 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:01,760 We need your leadership. 179 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,440 Saddam then said, no, no, no. 180 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,200 I want your frank, candid, and creative suggestions. 181 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,480 His Oxford-educated Minister of Health, Dr. Ibrahim, 182 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,400 took him seriously and made a rather shrewd suggestion. 183 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,120 Why, he suggested, don't we have you step down temporarily, 184 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,560 Saddam, until our goal of peace is established? 185 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:24,360 And then you can resume the presidency. 186 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,880 As the story is told, Saddam thanked him for his candor 187 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,680 and then had him arrested. 188 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:32,600 The minister's wife pled with Saddam 189 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,880 to return her husband to her. 190 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,520 He promised her that he would, as best 191 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,880 as I can tell, the only promise he ever kept. 192 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,040 The next day, he returned her husband to her, 193 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,400 and a black canvas bag chopped into pieces. 194 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,960 With his critics effectively silenced, 195 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,560 Hussein launched his ill-fated invasion of Kuwait. 196 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:57,600 When he ultimately surrendered, Hussein 197 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,080 promised to terminate production of all chemical 198 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,800 and nuclear weapons. 199 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,000 Subsequent United Nations inspections 200 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,000 confirm that Hussein was lying. 201 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:14,480 If one were to strip world leaders and politicians 202 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,080 of narcissistic characters, the ranks 203 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,040 would be perilously thinned. 204 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,360 We must always be alert to that fusion 205 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,640 between that personal drive for power, 206 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,120 unconstrained by conscience, when it meets a wounded 207 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,400 population that has repetitively over history 208 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,080 led to some of the most violent episodes that 209 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,040 have scarred our planet. 210 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,040 History has shown the political psychopaths 211 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,240 will not meld with a wise and magnanimous leaders. 212 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,080 Most like Adolf Hitler, perishing the flames a helping 213 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,040 knight, some like Idi Amin, are deposed 214 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,640 and live a quiet retirement in exile. 215 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,400 A few such as Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union 216 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,160 die of old age, with their iron grip still strong. 217 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,640 The ultimate fate of Saddam Hussein remains a question. 218 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,960 When we return, a case study of a different kind, 219 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,960 the female diabolical mind. 220 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:29,800 It may not surprise you that 95% of all serial killers 221 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,280 and mass murderers are men. 222 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,160 As one expert has said, if you're 223 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,720 looking for a diabolical gender, it is the male. 224 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,520 There are, however, a few diabolical women. 225 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,400 Typically, the sociopaths conceal their true nature 226 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,680 behind a veil of tenderness and warmth. 227 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,120 Frank and Marie Hilley were high school sweethearts. 228 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,480 They were married in 1950, and the life they built together 229 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,480 was the envy of friends and neighbors in Aniston, Alabama. 230 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,560 Here we go. 231 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:05,880 By 1971, Frank had worked his way up from a shipping clerk 232 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,600 to supervisor at the local foundry. 233 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,960 The Hilley's had two children, Carol 11 and Mike 18. 234 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,760 Aside from her tendency to overspend, 235 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,040 Marie was a cheerful and supportive partner 236 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,480 by all appearances, the perfect wife and mother. 237 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:23,960 Wow. 238 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:24,960 That's it. 239 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,520 But appearances deceive. 240 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:32,760 I first started getting sick when I was 18. 241 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,880 A lot of stomach problems. 242 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,600 And I started having those problems 243 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:42,640 about two or three months after an insurance policy 244 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,600 was taken out on me for $25,000. 245 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:54,880 Sweetheart, you're not feeling any better, are you? 246 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,880 Oh, honey, you are still just burning up. 247 00:13:58,920 --> 00:13:59,880 Stomach hurts. 248 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,000 Does it still? 249 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,560 Mike's doctors are unable to diagnose or cure 250 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,120 his persistent stomach ailments. 251 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,640 Curiously, once Mike left home for college, 252 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,440 the symptoms disappeared. 253 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,840 And curiously, with Mike away from home, 254 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,680 his father developed a mysterious stomach ailment. 255 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,800 Once again, doctors are unable to find a cause or provide 256 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,160 a cure. 257 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,520 At the same time, Frank and Marie's marriage 258 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,240 was falling apart. 259 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,200 My father called me one day and had something he wanted 260 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,840 to talk to me about. 261 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,120 He had come home from work early one day 262 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,560 and had found my mother in bed with one of her employers. 263 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,920 I think my father was going to divorce her. 264 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,400 I think that was one circumstance that she just 265 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,480 wouldn't allow to happen. 266 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,640 I love you too, Bob. 267 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:58,640 She placed a high value on prominence and reputation. 268 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,360 And to go through a divorce would have destroyed that. 269 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,920 Within two weeks of confiding in Mike, 270 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,720 Frank Hillie's mysterious disorder suddenly worsened. 271 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,360 Frank was admitted to the local hospital. 272 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,440 Marie rarely left his side, tenderly 273 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,320 feeding and caring for him. 274 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,320 No more. 275 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,880 I'm so sick for him. 276 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,280 You've got to eat, Frank. 277 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,120 I remember thinking to myself, maybe this 278 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,520 is the catalyst that will put them back together. 279 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:35,960 Don't you talk that way. 280 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,680 Maybe his illness will bring them closer together. 281 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,680 Frank, I am here for you. 282 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,680 And together we are going to make it. 283 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,080 Frank Hillie died on May 25, 1975. 284 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,280 The official cause of death was hepatitis. 285 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,880 Nobody suspected the truth. 286 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,040 What's important to understand is that these people who 287 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:07,040 seem so loving, love in a very odd way. 288 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,880 Love in a very odd way. 289 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,800 The sociopath will love you for what you do for them, 290 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,000 not for who you are and what you are. 291 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,920 Whenever you become no longer necessary to their lives, 292 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,440 they will throw you away. 293 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,240 And if that has to be through murder, so be it. 294 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,800 Marie spent little time mourning for her husband. 295 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,880 The proceeds from Frank's life insurance total more than $30,000. 296 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,360 Marie quickly refurnished her house, bought a new car, 297 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,840 and draped herself in expensive jewels and fashions. 298 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,800 When the money ran out, Marie kept spending. 299 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:56,320 We became aware that Marie was having financial problems. 300 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,480 There were various businesses filing complaints on her 301 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,040 for insufficient checks that she had written 302 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,400 to cover various purchases. 303 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,720 There were some deals with automobiles 304 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,760 that she had made that fell through and weren't paid for. 305 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,280 Just a lot of little things that began to add up 306 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,640 to flag our attention. 307 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,440 She owed more than she had. 308 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,760 She couldn't pay her bills. 309 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,960 My mother's finances were in terrible shape. 310 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,960 I began to receive phone calls from creditors. 311 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,480 She was wanting the money. 312 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:40,600 So she was getting all of these things 313 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,560 with the promise to her creditors that I would pay for them. 314 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,680 Four years after her father's death, 315 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,080 18-year-old Carol Hilley suddenly became sick. 316 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,880 Nobody thought to connect her illness 317 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,320 to Marie's financial problems. 318 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:02,040 But nobody knew that Marie had insured Carol's life for $25,000. 319 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,160 During the time that everyone was getting sick, 320 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,240 I think the time between those illnesses 321 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,800 were sufficient enough not to cause anybody 322 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,320 to question what was going on. 323 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:17,080 However, in each individual case, 324 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,920 I think someone relative in the family 325 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,760 suspected that something was going on and like me later on, 326 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,440 something is, but what? 327 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,600 Shortly after Carol became ill, Mike returned to Aniston 328 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,720 to confront Marie about her overspending. 329 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:33,880 No. 330 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,840 We are going to the bank and Cassia and Daddy 331 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,200 stop so that you can pay me the money that you owe me. 332 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:40,720 I won't do anything like that. 333 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,320 That is all the money I have in the world, 334 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,680 and I will not spend it. 335 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,880 Come on, the creditors are calling me three times a day. 336 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,960 Mike was now living in Florida. 337 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,040 He had a wife and young baby of his own, 338 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,400 and Marie's appetite for expensive possessions 339 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,560 threatened his family. 340 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,160 Mother? 341 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,280 I said, if I have to pick you up and physically put you 342 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,320 in the car, we're going to the bank. 343 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:09,360 There are no questions. 344 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,800 Right after breakfast, which she cooked, 345 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,320 I got about as sick as I'd ever been in my life. 346 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:22,600 I'm so sorry. 347 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,960 I don't want to stay here anymore. 348 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,320 Mike recovered quickly and returned to Florida, 349 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,560 but Carol's condition steadily worsened. 350 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,480 Last night, I talked to my friend, Ellen, 351 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:35,800 who's the registered nurse. 352 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,920 And she said they have this new medicine at her clinic 353 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,640 that she thinks might help you. 354 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,440 Can you get me some? 355 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,120 Carol was in and out of the hospital for six months 356 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:48,880 and finally became paralyzed from the waist down. 357 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,000 The only thing is. 358 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,640 Still, doctors are unable to diagnose her illness. 359 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,280 You promise you won't tell a soul? 360 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,200 I promise I won't tell anybody. 361 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,760 All right then, baby. 362 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,280 I'll give you some. 363 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,840 Now, let's see, you need to turn over for me, 364 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,560 because I'm going to have to do like an injection in your ear. 365 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,920 Carol became increasingly sicker and weaker, 366 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,400 although I didn't see her at that time. 367 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,000 I only heard from my mother and my aunt. 368 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:17,720 OK, sweetie. 369 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,840 This is going to sting a little bit. 370 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,840 I remember my aunt telling me that my mother had Carol 371 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,400 and seclusion, would not let anybody see her, 372 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,320 would not let anyone talk to her. 373 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,840 And if something didn't happen, Carol was going to die. 374 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,320 Right now, sweetheart, I really think that I have you. 375 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,760 I do. 376 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,280 When we find a woman who is a sociopath, 377 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:48,040 we find an individual who leads a double life, who 378 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:53,600 fools and manipulates family and friends, no one suspects. 379 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,400 In fact, she's often the last person you'd suspect at all. 380 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,920 Well, how can I help you, detective? 381 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,720 On September 20, 1979, Marie's facade of innocence 382 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,720 began to fracture. 383 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,760 While at the hospital tending Carol, 384 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,480 Marie was arrested for passing bad checks. 385 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,760 Aniston police didn't realize that the arrest probably 386 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,960 saved Carol's life. 387 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,680 One of Carol's friends at that time 388 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,040 told me that she had visited Carol that day. 389 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,280 And Carol had mentioned something about injections 390 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:30,920 that my mother had given her. 391 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,120 I just looked straight ahead for me, would you? 392 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,400 That's good. 393 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,680 Mike demanded that the hospital staff re-examine Carol. 394 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,800 How'd you sleep last night? 395 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,360 OK. 396 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:44,920 Doctors checked for a telltale sign of arsenic poisoning, 397 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,960 unmistakable white lines across the fingernails. 398 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,080 Yeah. 399 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,880 The world, as I knew it at that point, just fell apart. 400 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,480 Everything that I had been taught to rely on 401 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,600 was totally in question. 402 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,720 Everything that my mother had taught me right from wrong, 403 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,640 I had to go back and re-examine. 404 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,920 Mike Hilley was forced to confront the unspeakable. 405 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,200 His mother probably murdered his father. 406 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:30,040 In October of 1979, at Mike's request, and surprisingly 407 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,440 with Marie's permission, Frank Hilley's body 408 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,560 was exhumed for a second autopsy. 409 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,200 Marie quietly slipped out of town three weeks 410 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,120 before the autopsy results were released. 411 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,480 The revised cause of death, arsenic poisoning. 412 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,480 On January 11, 1980, an arrest warrant 413 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,400 was issued, charging Marie with the murder of her husband. 414 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,800 But by then, Marie Hilley had disappeared. 415 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:12,320 At about the same time, 700 miles from Aniston, 416 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,840 a romance blossomed in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. 417 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,760 Marie Hilley had resurfaced, flaunting a new identity, 418 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,000 Robbie Hannon. 419 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,160 John, could I have a light? 420 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,800 Oh, sure. 421 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,280 John Holman recently arrived from New Hampshire, 422 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,280 was pleased to meet her. 423 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,040 So Robbie, right? 424 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,280 Mm-hmm. 425 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,200 What brings you to sunny Florida? 426 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,800 Oh, just wanted to take a little vacation, 427 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,640 get away from the past. 428 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:40,840 I understand that. 429 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:41,960 Where are you from? 430 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,880 Oh, just a little town in Texas. 431 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,720 Robbie told John she was a widow 432 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,320 and was soon to inherit a vast estate. 433 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,080 She also revealed she had a life-threatening brain cancer. 434 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,040 But hey, enough about me. 435 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,120 Well, how about you? 436 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:57,200 I was not much to tell. 437 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,120 I'm afraid. 438 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:01,920 Sociopaths tend to be very good actors. 439 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,000 They know how to play the script of life. 440 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,280 And they know how to capitalize upon the needs 441 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,800 and vulnerabilities of others. 442 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,200 I'm sure all that snow. 443 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,800 The Robbie Hannon character was skillfully and deliberately 444 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:15,800 created. 445 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,280 She was attractive. 446 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,720 She was available. 447 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,360 She was going to be rich. 448 00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:23,760 And she might die sometime in the future. 449 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,680 The possibilities seemed endless. 450 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,200 Robbie and John were married in May of 1981. 451 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,200 She found work as a secretary and was 452 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,080 welcomed into the quiet social fabric of Marlowe, New Hampshire. 453 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,000 Pastor, how are you? 454 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,440 John Holman, good to see you again. 455 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,240 Thank you. 456 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,280 Who do we have here? 457 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,440 Pastor, I'd like for you to meet my wife, Robbie Holman. 458 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,040 Very pleased to meet you, Robbie. 459 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,720 Well, the pleasure is all mine, Pastor. 460 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,400 By all accounts, John and Robbie 461 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,000 shared a quiet and contented marriage. 462 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,480 Then in September of 1982, Robbie informed John 463 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,760 that her brain cancer had worsened. 464 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,240 She flew alone to Texas for a special medical test. 465 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,720 John Holman never saw Robbie again. 466 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,160 He got a call sometime later from an individual 467 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:16,320 who identified herself as Robbie Hannan's twin sister, 468 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,360 Terry Martin. 469 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:24,880 She also advised Mr. Holman that Robbie had died 470 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,440 and the body had been donated to science 471 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,480 and all the arrangements had been made. 472 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,800 So there was nothing for him to do. 473 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,840 Several weeks later, Terry Martin, Robbie's sister, 474 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,520 came to New Hampshire. 475 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,320 She brought an emotional farewell 476 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,200 that her Robbie had written to John just before she died. 477 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,840 Terry? 478 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,920 You must be John. 479 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,880 I'm Terry Martin, Robbie's sister. 480 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,000 Oh, I'm sorry, John. 481 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,440 I thought you knew we were twins. 482 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,280 I guess I knew. 483 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,720 I had no idea. 484 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,400 Identical twins. 485 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,920 Marie Hilly had lost 20 pounds, dyed her hair blonde, 486 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,000 and boldly returned to New Hampshire as her own twin 487 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:14,520 sister. 488 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,080 John Holman accepted Terry at face value. 489 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,480 She moved in with him, and they lived together for two months. 490 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,040 However, some of John's neighbors 491 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,720 were suspicious and attempted to verify Terry's story. 492 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,000 Nothing checked out. 493 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:38,200 Marie Hilly was ultimately trapped 494 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,200 by an unlikely coincidence. 495 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,160 Her age and description just happened 496 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:47,080 to match one of the FBI's most wanted fugitives. 497 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,200 On January 18, 1983, Terry Martin 498 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,160 was taken into custody for questioning. 499 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,560 After she was picked up, they had no idea 500 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,800 that she was actually Marie Hilly 501 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,000 and that she was wanted in Alabama for murder 502 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,680 and attempted to poison her daughter. 503 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,360 Once she was picked up, then they've 504 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:08,880 learned who in fact she really was. 505 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,240 Marie Hilly was sentenced to life plus 20 years. 506 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,320 In the winter of 1987, she escaped from prison, 507 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,480 only to die seven days later from prolonged exposure 508 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,840 to the cold. 509 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,160 Marie Hilly was 53 years old. 510 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,680 Mother had a lot of charisma and charm, 511 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,240 and she knew how to use that. 512 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,720 She had the ability to make you believe what she was saying, 513 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,720 even if you knew that it was an outright lie. 514 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,880 She had the ability to make you believe that you were the most 515 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,080 important thing in her life. 516 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,880 And that could have been the furthest thing from the truth. 517 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,400 What inner forces polluted Marie Hilly's natural bonds 518 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,040 with her husband and children? 519 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,320 How could a wife and mother regard her own family members 520 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,920 as little more than economic resources to be exploited? 521 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,680 Like so many diabolical personalities, 522 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,480 Marie Hilly remains a mystery. 523 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,080 When we return, a disturbing face 524 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,920 to face confrontation with a diabolical mind, 525 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,520 an interview with convicted murderer G Daniel Walker. 526 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,360 How long has he rapped here? 527 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:37,320 I would think the current one would probably 528 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,360 be about 29 to 30 pages. 529 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,760 29 to 30 pages. 530 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,160 Charles Manson's on the 5. 531 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,400 Well, he was just a killer. 532 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,800 Words, collections of letters, some bearing 533 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,560 an emotional charge, others as neutral as air, 534 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,240 perhaps providing a window to the inner workings 535 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,720 of the diabolical mind. 536 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:13,400 How are you doing, Steve? 537 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:14,320 Yeah, pretty good. 538 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,200 OK. 539 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,280 Remember the instructions now. 540 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,440 Based on test responses to emotional and non-emotional 541 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,640 words, Dr. Robert Hare in Canada believes 542 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,880 that this normal subject can be distinguished 543 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,320 from a psychopath. 544 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,040 Sensitive electronic instruments 545 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,440 show that a normal person responds faster 546 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,040 to emotionally charged words than to words that are neutral. 547 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,280 But psychopaths do not make this distinction. 548 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,680 Dr. Hare believes this may help explain why psychopaths 549 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,600 don't have a conscience. 550 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,640 Most people talk about conscience in terms 551 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,680 of something like an inner voice talking to one cell. 552 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:51,560 Well, I shouldn't do that. 553 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,200 You know, my mommy said I shouldn't do it. 554 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,000 I shouldn't do it. 555 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,600 And after a while, it becomes sort of automatic. 556 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:56,080 We do that. 557 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,800 We refer to that as conscience. 558 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,240 I would say that the psychopath probably 559 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,240 doesn't have the same sort of inner voice 560 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:02,880 that most people have. 561 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,880 It may be that the language processes, 562 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,920 or the ability of language to actually control behavior, 563 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,520 is different in the psychopath than it is in other people. 564 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,360 Dr. Hare's experiment is just one 565 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,640 attempt to unravel the most vexing mystery 566 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,720 of the diabolical mind. 567 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,200 Are certain people born as psychopaths, 568 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,520 or do they become psychopaths? 569 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,040 If I were to cast my vote in one direction or the other, 570 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,640 I'd probably say that it's more likely that they're born not 571 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,240 made. 572 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,720 I think that there are fairly strong genetic contributions 573 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,840 to all personality traits, including the personality 574 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,040 traits that make up psychopathy. 575 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,800 I think it's pretty clear that while people 576 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,920 may have inherited susceptibility 577 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,920 to certain kinds of violent crimes, 578 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,560 that individuals who go on to produce these kinds 579 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,120 of abominable crimes are created. 580 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,920 They're shaped by their families. 581 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,000 They're shaped by their societies. 582 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,760 They model the culture heroes in their civilization, 583 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,680 and they go on to commit these abominable acts. 584 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,760 Experts are still years away from understanding 585 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,160 the mind of the psychopath. 586 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,400 For a close-up look at the baffling enigma of such 587 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,840 a personality, unsolved mysteries 588 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,920 travel to northern California to interview convicted murderer 589 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,760 G. Daniel Walker. 590 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,680 While he is not a serial killer, 591 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,120 Walker is, without doubt, a diabolical mind. 592 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,360 At the time of the interview, G. Daniel Walker 593 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,800 was probably the only prisoner in California 594 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,640 with his own courthouse workspace, including a computer, 595 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,440 privileges resulting from a lawsuit 596 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,760 against a state prison system. 597 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,800 Over a three-year period, Walker was driven several times 598 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,360 a week to the Alameda County Courthouse, 599 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,200 where he prepared still more lawsuits 600 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,800 against judges, district attorneys, journalists, 601 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,720 and corrections officials. 602 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,680 He is almost as much trouble inside prison as out. 603 00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,600 Good morning, all. 604 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,560 A funny thing happens to me on the way to this interview. 605 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,640 I got arrested, put in chains, and I'm not 606 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,440 the defendant in this case. 607 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,320 Walker projects a buoyant, confident manner. 608 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,800 This amiable posture belies the fraud, armed robberies, 609 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,280 and murder which have kept him institutionalized 610 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,480 for most of the past 35 years. 611 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,640 G. Daniel Walker served time in the late 1960s 612 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,680 for armed robbery in the attempted murder 613 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,520 of an Illinois policeman. 614 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,560 In 1972, he escaped. 615 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,080 Three months later, he was arrested in California 616 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,240 for the murder of advertising executive William Ashlock. 617 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,440 After the killing, Walker allegedly 618 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,600 raped Ashlock's fiance, all the while proclaiming 619 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,240 his love for her. 620 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,240 He then terrorized her into helping him cover up the crime. 621 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,320 Walker defended himself in court, 622 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,840 claiming Ashlock was a victim of a mafia hit squad. 623 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,840 Walker insisted that he had only helped 624 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,760 to cover up the murder to protect Ashlock's fiance. 625 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,040 He lost his case and received a sentence of 17 years 626 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,560 to life in prison. 627 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,680 While Walker insists he is innocent of the murder charge, 628 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,600 he openly boasts of having committed more than 300 629 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,920 other crimes for which he has neither been charged nor tried. 630 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,320 Do you feel that you are pretty much 631 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,640 by the system where you belong from the standpoint of? 632 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,080 Yes. 633 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:24,840 Yes. 634 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,200 I'm convicted of murder. 635 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,000 I've always denied that I was the one that 636 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,240 did the actual shooting in that particular case, 637 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,640 but I've taken a witness stand. 638 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,120 Walker was interviewed by former FBI criminal profiler, 639 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,280 Robert Russell, in concealing the crime. 640 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,040 And given the same set of facts, I would do it again. 641 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,960 How long is your rap sheet? 642 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,680 I would think the current one would probably 643 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,160 be about 29 to 30 pages. 644 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,480 29 to 30 pages. 645 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,840 Charles Manson's is only five. 646 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,880 Well, he was just a killer. 647 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,840 But at the same time, I've heard you say that your criminal 648 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,960 record, your rap sheet, your FBI record, whatever, 649 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:03,360 does not certainly hold all that you have done. 650 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:03,920 Definitely not. 651 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,600 No, the body of work of the criminal enterprise 652 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:07,520 has been much greater. 653 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,560 And let's hope that I've been successful in something. 654 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,400 You see, you're meeting a failed criminal right now, 655 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,680 and you're very happy to be meeting me as a failed criminal 656 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,880 because you were meeting me as a successful criminal. 657 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,200 That means that I'd have the gun pointed at you. 658 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,240 And you would suddenly have this speech. 659 00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:24,040 A person like him can be extremely dangerous. 660 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,680 He doesn't buy our system. 661 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,880 He does not buy our society's rules as we establish them. 662 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,600 And again, that's a mark of a psychopath or a sociopath. 663 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,040 Is that they make their own rules in life. 664 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,920 You have had so many opportunities to stay out of jail. 665 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,120 And yet, you keep coming back in. 666 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,520 Well, then again, you see prison as not being successful. 667 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:47,880 And just because you're in prison doesn't 668 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,000 mean you can't be successful. 669 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,960 I think Salson Eason said the greatest freedom 670 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,680 that a man enjoys is being in prison 671 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,520 because they feed you breakfast in the morning. 672 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,120 You can go out and kill one of your soulmates, 673 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,400 and they'll still feed you lunch and give you 674 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,720 sheets for your bed in the evening. 675 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:01,720 The psychopathic individual will use 676 00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:03,240 several different defenses. 677 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,480 One of those is rationalization. 678 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,720 He will come up with very elaborate explanations 679 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:11,880 that when thought about very carefully make no sense. 680 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,920 Institutions are not that unsatisfying. 681 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,360 You've got to remember, I don't have 682 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,600 to go out and kill any cows. 683 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:18,680 They're going to do all that for me. 684 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,040 I don't have to go out and cook any meals. 685 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,240 I don't have to wash any dishes. 686 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,800 They're going to do all those things for me. 687 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,160 So the institution becomes a wife by nature. 688 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,920 They're going to wash my dirty socks for me. 689 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,560 They're going to do all of the things 690 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,600 that I don't necessarily like to do. 691 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,160 So if that's becoming institutionalized, 692 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,000 I'm happily married. 693 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,320 If you had the option, would you leave? 694 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:42,600 I've had the option to escape. 695 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,160 I have escaped, as you know. 696 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,720 Juries have tried me and never found me guilty of escape. 697 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:49,200 I've always represented myself in those cases. 698 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,760 There is a certain excitement when you have escaped 699 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,840 from a major penitentiary and you know 700 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,320 that the red lights are right behind you. 701 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,800 You know the sirens are going. 702 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,720 There is a certain excitement that you just, 703 00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:01,000 it's better than six. 704 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,640 So yes, there is that possibility 705 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,480 that there may be a 14th escape. 706 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,160 You know, I've heard that before from other people. 707 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:08,480 Oh, it's exciting. 708 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,920 The excitement is a high factor 709 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,680 in maintaining a life the way you have. 710 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,560 And oftentimes you'll find that the people 711 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,440 are pursuing you will lose the sense. 712 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:18,840 So you have to go back and show them, 713 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,560 no, no, you've got to turn this way, fellas. 714 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,400 You know, to keep the chase going. 715 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,360 And I've done that. 716 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,160 They will draw the interview 717 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,360 into what we call a narcissistic twin ship 718 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,720 where they will try to do things to show 719 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,720 in what ways they are similar to the interviewer. 720 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,760 And oftentimes the interviewer is both flattered 721 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,160 and caught off guard. 722 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,600 You know the minutes you've taken down a perpetrator 723 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,560 and you've taken them down that you guys get together 724 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:44,640 and give the high-fives and say, 725 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,400 good, we did that, oh, that was a great job, you know. 726 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,040 Well, the criminals do the same thing. 727 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,560 The minute that you've outwitted them, 728 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,000 you get together, give the high-fives, 729 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,640 oh, we got over on them. 730 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,600 Are you saying there's just a fine line 731 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:56,720 between you and I then? 732 00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:58,320 Very fine line, and you know it. 733 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,440 Do you have any true feelings of remorse? 734 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,760 Well, I would have to say take a different tangent 735 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,200 and then do I have remorse for the things 736 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,040 that put me there. 737 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,080 We have to remember that the crime 738 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,640 that I'm in prison for, I defended myself. 739 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,920 So I'm the one that lost that case. 740 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,480 So I have remorse that I didn't handle that case 741 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,040 in a little different way. 742 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:20,880 As far as how- 743 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,240 The psychopathic individual will engage 744 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,720 in a psychology of reversals. 745 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:27,960 Pain originates in other people. 746 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,080 Problems originate in other people. 747 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,760 And responsibility for our behavior 748 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,520 is really other people's responsibility. 749 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,760 Do you feel that you are a truly dangerous person 750 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,000 from the standpoint of committing violent acts? 751 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,360 Only if you've done something wrong to me. 752 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,120 I think what you're referring to is the fact that- 753 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,320 From prison, Walker somehow managed 754 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,440 to have a highly toxic poison imported 755 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,360 into the United States. 756 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,640 A deputy district attorney would once prosecuted Walker, 757 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,760 became terrified that he might be Walker's target. 758 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,320 The system where it can't be traced. 759 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,000 So when suddenly the system discovered 760 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,160 that I had 2.2 pounds of poison in the United States, 761 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,000 they went crazy. 762 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,280 Like, what does G. Daniel Walker want with this poison? 763 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,560 Well, the little lady that lives in Dubuque, Iowa 764 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,800 that has an antique collection 765 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,520 that has never heard of the name G. Daniel Walker, 766 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,600 knew that I didn't have that poison for her. 767 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,080 So she had no concern. 768 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,960 There were a lot of deputy attorney generals, 769 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,920 a lot of United States assistant, 770 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,040 United States attorneys that suddenly became very uncomfortable. 771 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,360 And there were a lot of judges that became uncomfortable. 772 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,640 And they started a major investigation. 773 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:30,480 They indicted me. 774 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,840 A two-count indictment for importing this poison. 775 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,160 They spent about a million, $300,000 776 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:37,440 working up a prosecution. 777 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,640 And then they folded their tent 778 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,480 because they found out that I hadn't broken the law. 779 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,320 Did you use the poison? 780 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,960 They've never found any sufficient evidence 781 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,120 to charge me with having used it. 782 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,320 But it certainly caused one deputy attorney general 783 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,800 in the state of California to go through his cabinets 784 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,320 and take all ingestible items out, toothpaste and liquor. 785 00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,800 And finally his wife said, well, gee, 786 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:00,680 it could be in the carpet. 787 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:01,880 So they recarbonized their home. 788 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,800 And finally they sold the home, moved. 789 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,440 So in other words, creating paranoia 790 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,920 in a person can be oftentimes even more insidious 791 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,520 and just making verbal threats. 792 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,880 It's a better gamesmanship than doing physical violence. 793 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,240 Because fear lives with you 24 hours a day. 794 00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:18,440 Fear never goes away. 795 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,360 If you kill somebody, that's over. 796 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:21,560 Or attempt to kill somebody. 797 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,160 Yes. 798 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,800 If you've hurt them, you know, and as long as a pain is there, 799 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,480 but fear is a pain that lives with you forever. 800 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,800 Since 1977, G. Daniel Walker has been denied parole seven times. 801 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,480 If the state does grant him parole on the murder charge, 802 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,480 Walker still faces a 50-year term on federal charges, 803 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,880 stemming from credit card frauds he committed from inside prison. 804 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,560 When we return, FBI and Florida investigators 805 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,840 track an elusive diabolical killer. 806 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,960 On May 26, 1989, Joanne Rogers and her daughters Michelle, 807 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:17,400 17, and Christie, 14, left their farm in Wilshire, Ohio 808 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,120 for a long anticipated vacation in Florida. 809 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,400 They visited the zoo in Jacksonville, 810 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,400 then drove to Kennedy Space Center, Disney World, 811 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,360 and the Epcot Center before arriving in Tampa on June 812 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,440 1st to Thursday. 813 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,400 Boy, I'm on a trip. 814 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,400 There, the Rogers carefree vacation 815 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,520 came to a sudden and horrifying end. 816 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,360 I knew they were supposed to be back maybe on Saturday, 817 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,000 Sunday, maybe on Monday. 818 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,240 But Tuesday morning, I got a little concerned about it. 819 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:54,280 I called her mom, and she hadn't even called her. 820 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,800 And I knew something had happened there, 821 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,320 because she's not the type that don't call. 822 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,680 I just figured she couldn't get a hold of me. 823 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:06,080 And that's when I think I reported them missing. 824 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,040 On the same day, Hal Rogers expected his family to return 825 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,040 home. 826 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,200 The bodies of three unidentified women 827 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,680 floated to the surface of Tampa Bay. 828 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,000 Each had been bound with tape, weighted with a cinder block, 829 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,320 and dumped into the bay, still alive. 830 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,760 All three had apparently been sexually assaulted. 831 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,840 2, 3, go. 832 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:32,240 The victims were Joanne, Michelle, and Christy Rogers. 833 00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:34,280 Once again, authorities were confronted 834 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,840 with a grim harvest of an unknown psychopathic killer. 835 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:43,920 Male serial killers are so difficult to apprehend. 836 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:49,320 They kill strangers, unknown motive, no crime scene, 837 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,640 no fingerprints, no other physical evidence, 838 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,560 usually only a dump site. 839 00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,520 And that is the modus operandi of the male serial killer. 840 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,840 The murders of Joanne, Michelle, and Christy 841 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,280 were classic psychopathic killings, 842 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,760 cunningly concede and executed without remorse. 843 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,480 The maddening scarcity of evidence 844 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,920 has limited authorities to assumptions and speculation. 845 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,960 Without a name, face, or fingerprint, 846 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,440 police have attempted to construct the profile of a killer. 847 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,120 It is at best a slow, frustrating process. 848 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,520 Tampa Bay was the final stop on the Rogers itinerary 849 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,880 before they returned to Ohio. 850 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,840 Christy, isn't that last place we went to? 851 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:38,740 Oh, yeah. 852 00:42:38,740 --> 00:42:39,640 Did you love it? 853 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,240 Joanne, Michelle, and Christy checked into their motet 854 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:44,480 around noon on June 1. 855 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,760 Within hours, fate and happenstance 856 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,400 brought them into the range of a lurking killer. 857 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,320 We believe that they were victims of opportunity. 858 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,680 What that means, basically, is he surveilled them. 859 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,400 He knew that they were the ones that he wanted to approach, 860 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:01,320 and he had planned this. 861 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,960 But it wasn't that much in advance, 862 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,800 because the circumstances of their travels 863 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,800 wouldn't lend to that. 864 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,080 Authorities believe that in order to bring Joanne 865 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,200 and her daughters under his control, 866 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:18,080 the killer first had to overcome their natural suspicions. 867 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,120 We feel that the offender presented himself 868 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,600 in a very non-threatening manner. 869 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,160 Something where he made it enticing or inviting to them 870 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,040 struck up a conversation, and that in his physical appearance, 871 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,280 he was probably pleasing to look at someone 872 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,040 that they felt comfortable with. 873 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,360 Time appears to be the car. 874 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,840 It's a two-door, old, blue and collar. 875 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,960 On June the 8th, the Rogers car was found at a boat ramp 876 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,720 near their motel. 877 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:47,160 Inside was a sinister hint that the women had been entrapped. 878 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,280 We found a note in that vehicle that 879 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:55,000 indicated directions for the victims to go to the boat ramp 880 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,960 and to meet someone there with something that's 881 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,440 blue slash white. 882 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,880 That would lead us to believe that they went there 883 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,400 to meet a blue and white boat. 884 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,000 Police are convinced that Joanne Rogers and the two girls 885 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,280 were lured to their deaths, probably 886 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,480 by the promise of an innocent boat ride, 887 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,560 and probably by more than one assailant. 888 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:18,920 How you doing today? 889 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,240 Let me give you a hand. 890 00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:26,800 They got on the boat with this person or these people. 891 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,160 And at that time, I'm sure they felt very safe with them. 892 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,480 And that was the killer's plan. 893 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,000 He knew what he was going to do to those victims before they 894 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,080 ever got on this boat. 895 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:39,780 OK. 896 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,600 We think a person like this will kill again, 897 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,840 and all probability has killed again. 898 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,440 However, we think that he was surprised that the body surfaced 899 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:55,960 as quickly as they did. 900 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,280 And in his killing subsequent to this, 901 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,520 he will change his manner and his method 902 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:01,880 of disposal of any bodies. 903 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,320 The psychological profile of the killer 904 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,440 has provided investigators with some insights 905 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,640 into this ugly crime, but has failed 906 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,160 to pinpoint a specific suspect. 907 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,680 Police have only a few admittedly slim leads 908 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,040 that might result in the capture of this confident 909 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,560 and ruthless psychopath. 910 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,880 A guest at the motel on the day of the Rogers death 911 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,680 reported seeing a young, well-groomed white male 912 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,600 loading a cooler into a white boat 913 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,880 with dark blue racing stripes. 914 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,720 The boat was towed by a dark-colored Chevy Blazer 915 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,440 or Ford Bronco. 916 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,760 Efforts to locate this person have so far been unsuccessful. 917 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:18,080 It is easy to feel overwhelmed and frightened 918 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:22,160 by the many faces of the sociopath. 919 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,640 The immediacy of television makes us feel as though every murder, 920 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,240 every horror is happening right down the block. 921 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,880 In reality, violent psychopaths are an extreme rarity. 922 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,040 Unfortunately, few of us will ever encounter one. 923 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,680 There is still much to learn about the disturbing phenomenon 924 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,680 in terms of identifying it, predicting it, and preventing it. 925 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,360 Thank you for joining us, and please join us next time 926 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,560 for another edition of Unsolved Mysteries.